Legislature(1995 - 1996)

02/14/1995 08:10 AM House TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
            HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                            
                       February 14, 1995                                       
                           8:10 a.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Gary Davis, Chairman                                           
 Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                      
 Representative Jerry Sanders                                                  
 Representative Bill Williams                                                  
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Jeannette James                                                
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
 Representative Eileen MacLean                                                 
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 CONFIRMATION HEARING:  Commissioner-Designate Joseph L. Perkins,              
 Department of Transportation and Public Facilities.                           
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 JOSEPH L. PERKINS, Commissioner-Designate                                     
 Department of Transportation                                                  
   and Public Facilities                                                       
 P.O. Box 20129                                                                
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  465-3900                                                          
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-3, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 The House Transportation Committee was called to order by Chairman            
 Gary Davis at 8:10 a.m.  Members present at the call to order were            
 Representative Davis, Masek and Sanders.                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN GARY DAVIS introduced Joe Perkins, Commissioner-Designate            
 of the Department of Transportation Public Facilities (DOT/PF).               
                                                                               
 Number 019                                                                    
                                                                               
 JOSEPH L. PERKINS, Commissioner-Designate, DOT/PF explained that he           
 possessed a diverse career throughout the world but has been in               
 Alaska 15 or 16 years.  He stated that he felt very fortunate that            
 there are few parts of the state he has not been to or has not                
 accomplished a project in.  Commissioner Perkins stated that one of           
 his determining factors when he made the decision that he would               
 come back for this job, was with his background and expertise, he             
 could effectively contribute to the understanding of the problems             
 throughout most of the state.  He indicated that he has become                
 knowledgeable and familiar with the problems, at hand, and has                
 traveled Alaskan roads extensively.  Commissioner Perkins                     
 reiterated that his background would help him considerably in the             
 decisions he will have to make as well as the policy that he will             
 be setting for the future of transportation within the state of               
 Alaska.  Commissioner Perkins said he would be glad to answer any             
 questions.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 055                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK inquired as to what were the two joint           
 ventures with the Native corporations Commissioner Perkins managed            
 from the time periods of July, 1985, through April, 1991.                     
                                                                               
 Number 085                                                                    
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that he had a joint venture with               
 CIRI native corporation with Frank Moon and Associates and CIRI.              
 The joint venture was to manage the logistical support and the camp           
 for the studies of the Whatana and Susitna Hydroelectric projects.            
 The second joint venture was with Ahtna Native Corporation.  It was           
 for the design and construction of the Backscatter Program.  Ahtna            
 has sold land to the Air Force for that program.  The Air Force was           
 the partner for accomplishing the design and construction.  He                
 continued by stating that this project was a sizeable job and                 
 completely negotiated with the final contract negotiated at                   
 approximately $210 million.  The Secretary of Defense personally              
 "killed" the Backscatter Program shortly before the start of                  
 construction.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 090                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK inquired as to what was the Backscatter                  
 Program.                                                                      
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that the Backscatter Program was               
 designed to be an over the horizon radar program.  There were                 
 supposedly four sites to be constructed, each of these sites were             
 actually comprised of two sites, one with an antenna to receive and           
 one with an antenna to transmit.  On the East Coast the site was              
 located in Maine and both the receiver and transmitting antennas              
 were located in Maine, where as on the West coast the receiver                
 antenna was in California and the transmitting antenna was located            
 in Oregon. This site was also completed and operational.  The                 
 Alaska site was supposed to have the transmitter located outside of           
 Gulkona and the receiver site in Tok, Alaska.  All the preliminary            
 work was done but construction never took place.  Commissioner                
 Perkins continued that the fourth site was to be in North Dakota              
 and Minnesota but also was not built.  Commissioner Perkins                   
 explained that the "over the horizon radar"  was  unique in that              
 most radars are affected by the curvature of the earth the Over the           
 horizon design, instead, was designed to bounce the radar beams off           
 the ionosphere and down, with the ability to go vast distances and            
 actually create a curtain where anything that flew through the                
 curtain was picked up on the radar screen.                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK asked if there was a lot of revenue lost in              
 the Backscatter Program.                                                      
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied that a lot of revenue was lost.                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS added that a lot of federal revenue was lost.                  
                                                                               
 Number 120                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS recognized that Representative Williams joined the             
 Meeting at 8:10 a.m.  Chairman Davis stated that most of the                  
 primary dollars for highway construction comes from the Intermodal            
 Surface Transportation Efficiency Act (ISTEA) Program. Chairman               
 Davis stated that he addressed this issue with Commissioner Perkins           
 prior to this meeting.  Chairman Davis informed the committee                 
 members that the initial federal legislation  of the ISTEA Program            
 was for five years and the reauthorization is scheduled for review            
 in 1997.  Chairman Davis stated that Commissioner Perkins spent               
 some time in Washington D.C., working on the legislation and asked            
 whether or not the Commissioner knew of any changes or maneuvering            
 in disseminating the appropriate funds.  Chairman Davis expressed             
 concern for "protecting our share" and to obtain as much of the               
 available funds as possible.  Chairman Davis acknowledged that the            
 purpose of the Commissioner's work, in Washington, was to get to              
 know the players of the game.  Chairman Davis also expressed a                
 desire to be kept informed of any changes.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 150                                                                    
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS indicated that there had not been any changes            
 nor did he expect any action on the issue for the next three or               
 four months.  However, DOT/PF would start some of the preliminary             
 work that needs to be done on the bill sometime in August or                  
 September of 1995.  Commissioner Perkins indicated that although              
 the preliminary work is scheduled, no official action will be taken           
 and that only the lobbying portion will happen.  Commissioner                 
 Perkins stated that this coming summer, the department will have to           
 play as big a role as it possibly can in the development of the               
 draft language that is in the bill.  The Commissioner referred to             
 the Federal Department of Transportation and said reorganization              
 has been presented to Congress.  There is a real question, in                 
 Washington D.C., as to whether Congress will have a chance to                 
 review the bill this year.  Commissioner Perkins explained the                
 difficulties in assessing the effects, for example,  would                    
 relationships remain stable with the local highway administration.            
 Commissioner Perkins felt that there are some important questions,            
 within the reorganization, that could possibly effect the ISTEA               
 Program.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 179                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS asked Representative Williams if he had any                    
 questions directed to Commissioner Perkins regarding the Alaska               
 Marine Highway System, or other questions.                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS inquired as to what thoughts and                 
 concerns Commissioner Perkins had about the Alaska Marine Highway             
 System.                                                                       
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated the ferry system is part of the road              
 system of the state of Alaska and has been so designated by the               
 state as part of the National Highway System.  Commissioner Perkins           
 explained that because of his involvement in Southeast Alaska the             
 Alaska Marine Highway System is an essential portion of the                   
 transportation system of Southeast.  He intends to support the                
 ferry system as he supports the highway system.                               
                                                                               
 Number 191                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS asked Commissioner Perkins if he knew            
 how the Administration feels about the construction of new roads in           
 Alaska, such as the Dalton Highway, the Whittier Road and the                 
 Cordova Road as well as the possibility of a road to Nome.  He                
 asked if there would be progress, on any of these proposed roads,             
 within the next four years.                                                   
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that they are attempting to develop an            
 agenda as to what their policies, priorities and goals would be               
 within the transportation industry.  Commissioner Perkins                     
 acknowledged that he did not have any answers to Representative               
 Sanders inquires on the proposed roads he mentioned but did state             
 that they will be looked at on a case by case basis.  The                     
 Commissioner continued that if the road holds an economical                   
 justification, then he felt they would proceed with the appropriate           
 measures.  The Commissioner was concerned about the justification             
 of the proposed roads and did not feel that the roads mentioned               
 should be built just for the sake of building roads to possibly               
 gain access (open up country) to areas with potential development.            
 The Commissioner felt that the demand for roads in the state, as              
 well as the repair of the roads, has become a much greater problem            
 that needs to be addressed.  Commissioner Perkins reiterated the              
 importance in looking at the roads, on a case by case basis, and              
 called attention to the example of the Whittier Road that is                  
 currently proceeding through an environmental impact statement                
 (EIS).  The commissioner stated that upon completion of the                   
 statement, a decision will be made as to what will be done with the           
 Whittier Road.  Commissioner Perkins stated he could not second               
 guess the outcome of the EIS or the public comments taken, but was            
 confident that the proposed roads would be carefully studied.  He             
 stated that DOT/PF will hopefully make a decision that is in the              
 best interest to the state.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 237                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK  noted that the Department of Transportation             
 has numerous maintenance stations along the Glenn Highway out of              
 Anchorage and along the Parks highway towards Fairbanks that are              
 situated relatively close to one another.  Representative Masek               
 questioned the cost to the state of maintaining these stations year           
 round.  She inquired about the amount of work in relation to the              
 amount of employees in the summer time.  She asked if DOT/PF would            
 consider privatizing some of the maintenance stations.                        
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that to date, he had not inquired as           
 to the efficiency of the maintenance effort.  He stated that he               
 intends to look at privatizing certain areas for greater                      
 efficiency.  He doubted that road maintenance, such as the snow               
 plowing efforts, could ever be privatized.  The Commissioner                  
 pointed out, that no contractor in the state of Alaska owns a plow            
 of effective size.  Commissioner Perkins felt that the state will             
 be ultimately responsible for providing the basic services of                 
 keeping the major roads clear well into the future.  He added that            
 it would be more expensive on the larger roads to perform contract            
 maintenance, although the smaller roads might be contracted out if            
 someone happened to have a more efficient method of maintaining the           
 smaller roads.  Commissioner Perkins explained that the people                
 working for DOT/PF are heavily utilized.  Commissioner Perkins                
 stated that he has a tremendous amount of respect for the people              
 who sometimes work over 18 hours a day.  The Commissioner concluded           
 that there would be room to contract out in certain areas, but did            
 not foresee major roads such as the Parks Highway being completely            
 contracted out.  Commissioner Perkins explained that it would not             
 be economically feasible for a private contractor to make a                   
 reasonable bid for the maintenance of the major roads in Alaska and           
 that the appropriate equipment was just not held in the private               
 sector.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 290                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK followed up on Commissioner Perkins point of             
 privatizing.  She clarified her question on privatizing by stating            
 that during the summer months, it was costing the state a lot of              
 money to keep the maintenance stations operational.                           
 Representative Masek stated that from her own experiences, she                
 believes the private sector would like to get more involved, and it           
 would create more jobs for the people who do not have access to               
 being a state employee and working for the DOT/PF.                            
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS indicated that the issue Representative Masek            
 spoke of will be looked into as to whether it would be possible to            
 contract out some of the maintenance.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 304                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS stated that as we get closer to the budget            
 process, he is concerned about budget cuts on services to various             
 communities.  Representative Williams expressed concern that when             
 the snow removal is not carried out in his area, he receives phone            
 calls.  Representative Williams inquired as to what some of the               
 budget cutbacks would be.                                                     
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS responded by stating that he would look at               
 greater methods of efficiency within the DOT/PF.  He stated the               
 problem involves the workload which is constantly growing.  He                
 added that every time a lane is added, it increases the work load             
 in both summer and winter.  Over the past ten years the workload of           
 DOT has grown considerably but the funding has basically stayed the           
 same.  He expressed concerns with deferred maintenance and that               
 DOT/PF can no longer maintain the highway system the way it should.           
 He further explained that maintenance includes the clearing of                
 brush and willows on the shoulders of the roads.  He also included            
 additional work of road surfacing and that DOT/PF did not have the            
 funds available for the maintenance.  Commissioner Perkins                    
 reiterated that highway maintenance is an enormous problem and if             
 one were to check the history of the  appropriations, one would see           
 that they have stayed "flat," but felt this funding would have to             
 be increased.  He explained that the roads are wearing out and                
 federal funds are being used for repair.  Commissioner Perkins felt           
 the above issues needed to be addressed.  He added that there was             
 no time, this year, to come up with any solutions to the                      
 maintenance problems, but was hopeful that next year, he will be              
 able to present the Transportation Committee with some solutions in           
 obtaining the appropriate funds.                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS asked if Commissioner Perkins was                     
 considering cutting back personnel within the department.                     
 Representative Williams expressed concerns by stating an example              
 with one of the companies he had worked for in the past in that cut           
 backs were made within the department, but the company was still              
 expected to provide the same amount of services.  Representative              
 Williams stated that there was some confusion as to who was                   
 responsible for what jobs and there seemed to be an attitude of               
 "well that's not my job, that's not in my job description" type of            
 attitude.  Representative Williams asked if the Commissioner had              
 any plans to cut back and be more efficient with manning.                     
                                                                               
 Number 315                                                                    
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that DOT/PF was in the process of                 
 trying to cut back and he does see efficiency as a goal of his due            
 to the fact there is not much work he could cut out.  The                     
 Commissioner stated either you have to do less work or else you               
 have to get more efficient.  Commissioner Perkins stated that he              
 opted for more efficiency.  Again, the Commissioner emphasized the            
 need to look at the people employed by DOT/PF and see about                   
 doubling up in some areas.  Commissioner Perkins stated that he had           
 instructed the regional directors to examine their organizations              
 for possible reduction of staff.  Commissioner Perkins mentioned              
 that a large portion of DOT/PF was funded by the federal government           
 and that operating funds basically funds the maintenance portion.             
 Most of the engineering funds come from federal dollars and not               
 state.  The Commissioner said that DOT/PF was looking at methods to           
 free up some of the federal funds in order to accomplish more work            
 with federal dollars.  Commissioner Perkins stated that he would              
 look at the general fund dollars from the state and come up with              
 methods to become more efficient in the reduction of the amount of            
 dollars required from both state and federal sources.                         
                                                                               
 Number 385                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS said that the state of Alaska could obtain a list of           
 areas that the state funds which is not typically the business of             
 the state.  Chairman Davis inquired as to these activities within             
 the department.                                                               
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS  explained Alaska is one of few states that              
 maintain roads in urban areas.  The organization within the state             
 of Alaska is unique to other states.  Commissioner Perkins used the           
 example of where he grew up in that the County Road Commission took           
 care of the county roads and smaller towns of approximately one               
 thousand people or so took care of the streets within their cities.           
 The people in those areas were taxed in order to support and                  
 maintain the operations necessary and the state only took care of             
 state and federal highways.  Commissioner Perkins further explained           
 that it was impractical to compare Alaska's DOT/PF with Oklahoma's            
 DOT due to the fact that Oklahoma mainly built interstates and                
 state and federal highways.  Commissioner Perkins used Tulsa as an            
 example in that they do not maintain roads with the exception of              
 the interstates.  He added Alaska's DOT/PF was responsible for the            
 service and maintenance of Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau and the               
 smaller villages.  He said that Alaska's DOT/PF builds and                    
 maintains roads where the rest of the country relies on local                 
 people with local taxes.  He stated this was the major difference             
 in the level of service that Alaska provided, which came with much            
 higher and greater demands than the level of service imposed by any           
 DOT in the rest of the country.                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS encouraged the Commissioner to pursue the process of           
 converting state maintenance, within the municipalities, over to              
 the respective municipalities.  Chairman Davis referred to Title 29           
 which implies when municipalities are established, they have become           
 selective in what services they will except, and because of this,             
 a lot of municipalities have opted not to except road maintenance             
 authority.  Chairman Davis felt that the Commissioner would receive           
 a lot of encouragement from the municipalities.  He felt that                 
 Anchorage was close to a contract with the state in taking over the           
 maintenance of state roads within the municipality of Anchorage,              
 but also acknowledged that Anchorage was not willing to do it for             
 nothing and are looking for some compensation from the state.                 
 Chairman Davis encouraged Commissioner Perkins to pursue conversion           
 of the appropriate contracts.  Chairman Davis referred to the                 
 actual buildings, public facilities, maintenance and major                    
 construction of new facilities, and asked what the variations in              
 handling these issues as opposed to other states.                             
                                                                               
 Number 438                                                                    
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that normally you don't see that in               
 other state's DOTs.  Usually there is some sort of General Service            
 Administration (GSA) that takes care of the buildings in the state.           
 Commissioner Perkins continued  that in Alaska, the department                
 takes care of buildings.  He emphasized they don't take care of all           
 the buildings.  He further stated that he was not sure of                     
 percentages but it was close to 80 percent.  He acknowledged that             
 there are other buildings that are maintained by other departments.           
 Within Alaska we do not have all our buildings consolidated in one            
 place, however, DOT/PF has got the bulk of them.  Commissioner                
 Perkins stated he intends to work on a plan to pick up deferred               
 maintenance of facilities within the state of Alaska.  Commissioner           
 Perkins stated that we also need to look at the potential of                  
 consolidating the states buildings together somewhere, either with            
 the Department Transportation, or somewhere else.  Commissioner               
 Perkins emphasized there was efficiencies to be gained with                   
 centralizing management of these buildings.  Commissioner Perkins             
 said the state is building up a considerable deferred maintenance             
 list and added that our buildings are relatively new compared to              
 the buildings say in Massachusetts or Connecticut.  He added that             
 we have only started to get into the maintenance of these buildings           
 and as our buildings get older, we will see an increase in                    
 maintaining these buildings.  Commissioner Perkins expressed the              
 difficulties in getting people interested in the maintenance of the           
 buildings.  He acknowledged there are problems that need fixing and           
 there is a considerable dollar value of maintenance that should be            
 going into their repair and maintenance.  He indicated he hopes to            
 return to the Transportation Committee with a proposal that will              
 address a solution to the above problems.                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS asked the Commissioner to state his concerns about             
 a seat or designee on the Alaska Railroad Board and what were his             
 intentions are to sit on that Board, or, if given the option of a             
 designee who would that be.                                                   
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS responded by saying he would sit on the board            
 and commented that the Railroad Board met last month and he plans             
 to continue to be the department's representative on the Railroad             
 board.  Commissioner Perkins considered the Railroad Board to be a            
 very important transportation mode in the state.                              
                                                                               
 Number  465                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS  inquired as to the deputy commissioner's                      
 involvement and the status of positions filled.  He also asked if             
 the Commissioner would introduce any that might be present at this            
 meeting.                                                                      
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that DOT/PF will end up with two deputy           
 commissioners which have been authorized.  He stated that he plans            
 on being very selective on who he chooses.  Commissioner Perkins              
 said that one of the positions has been filled by Boyd Brownfield             
 who was appointed by the Governor.  The Commissioner acknowledged             
 that Mr. Brownfield was currently present at the House                        
 Transportation meeting.  Commissioner Perkins stated that Mr.                 
 Brownfield has been involved with the department out of Anchorage             
 and ran the Design and Construction Section and the maintenance and           
 operation side of the Central Region.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK commented that in the area of employees for              
 the department, she has heard several complaints over the last                
 couple of years of teams of employees where there is one supervisor           
 for two employees which makes a total of three in a crew.  She                
 indicated she doesn't have the information to back up this, but               
 this is coming from citizens.  Representative Masek asked if the              
 Commissioner could look into the situation.                                   
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS responded by assuring Representative Masek               
 that he would look into the matter.  He concurred that if that type           
 of situation exists, it would be dealt with appropriately.  The               
 above situation that Representative Masek spook of was a                      
 "unexceptable worker verses watcher level"                                    
                                                                               
 Number 496                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS reiterated that Representative Williams had                    
 commented on the fact that people in Southeast pay to ride the                
 ferry and this is part of their highway system. As for the road               
 system, people pay for this service through a gas tax, that the               
 more one drives the greater the consumption of gasoline and the               
 more tax is paid.  Chairman Davis asked if any consideration or               
 changes are being contemplated in the pricing structure of the                
 Alaska Marine Highway System.  Chairman Davis asked if there was              
 any thought or consideration by the department with regards to a              
 gasoline tax increase or decrease.                                            
                                                                               
 COMMISSIONER PERKINS stated that this would be looked at when                 
 looking at a potential revenue source for the funding of                      
 maintenance  towards the highways.  The Commissioner felt he could            
 not say that a gasoline tax increase or decrease would be their               
 recommendation, but did state that the state of Alaska has the                
 lowest tax in the nation at approximately eight cents a gallon with           
 the nations average estimated at seventeen or eighteen cents per              
 gallon.  Commissioner Perkins said it was an area the department              
 would look at but currently there are no plans or recommendations             
 proposed on the issue.  Perhaps the department will have further              
 recommendations for the next year.                                            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN DAVIS thanked Commissioner Perkins for his attendance and            
 involvement and stated the recommendation hearing held was in                 
 accordance with Alaska Statute 39.05.080.  He further stated the              
 House Transportation Committee has reviewed the qualifications of             
 the following and recommends the appointment be forwarded to a                
 Joint Session for consideration.  Chairman Davis explained that in            
 signing the recommendation, this does not reflect an intent, by any           
 of the committee members, to vote for or against Mr. Perkins during           
 any further sessions, for the purposes of the confirmation.                   
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 There being no further business to come before the House                      
 Transportation Committee, CHAIRMAN DAVIS adjourned the meeting at             
 8:40 a.m.                                                                     
                                                                               

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